Post-Chandler Trade: Is Iverson the Answer?

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By signing Allen Iverson, the Bobcats could salvage the upcoming season

Could Iverson salvage the Bobcats season?

I did a little math last night.  Nothing complicated like you’d see over at 82games.com, Queen City Hoops or with John Hollinger.  I’m not mathematically brilliant like those guys.  Just some basic addition.

If you take the Bobcats current top eight players Point Per Game averages from last season and add them up, you get 90.6 points per game.  Last season, the Bobcats finished 30th out of 30 teams in scoring at 93.6 (The League average was around 100 per game).

The Bobcats leading scorer from last season, Gerald Wallace, averaged 16 and a half points a game.  Diaw put up a career high 15.0 ppg after the trade from Phoenix.  Those are your two top offensive threats, Bobcats fans.  Are you as worried as I am?

It’s pretty obvious that the Bobcats could benefit from A.I.’s scoring presence and we’ve talked about that here before at length.  What a lot fans might not understand is how precariously close the team is to this year’s $69.92 million luxury tax level.
After the Chandler trade, the team stands at $59.84 million and this is BEFORE re-signing Raymond Felton and shoring up their backup PF position.  And since there’s no way Bob Johnson is paying luxury tax this year, the Bobcats will basically have to choose between re-signing Raymond or bringing in Iverson.

With such a dearth of scoring on the roster, I’m not sure if it’s even a choice.  The Bobcats need a scorer and Iverson is the last one out there on the open market.

Now, you could argue that Detroit, San Antonio and New Orleans all made the playoffs last season scoring less than 97 points per game.  The only difference is is that all of those teams have guys on their rosters who could drop 30 on any given night.  As much as I love Gerald and Boris, I wouldn’t put them into the scoring class of Rip Hamilton, Chris Paul, David West, Tim Duncan, Tony Parker or Manu just yet.

TURNING FELTON INTO AN ASSET

Would Golden State take Raymond Felton for Brandon Wright?

Signing A.I. to a two year full mid-level deal starting at $5.85 million would leave a little less than $2 million (via bi-annual exception) this offseason to sign a dependable backup PF.

Since Felton is a quality player who the Bobcats invested four seasons in, you wouldn’t want to just withdrawal the qualifying offer and renounce his rights when you could get something out of him in a sign-and-trade.

Of the three or so NBA teams that are currently without a decent starting PG, perhaps the best fit for Raymond would be Golden State.  Would Don Nelson be interested in dealing his least favorite Tarheel (Brandon Wright) for Felton?  The Warriors don’t have a “pure” PG and instead have two shoot-first, smallish SGs in Monta Ellis and Steph Curry (as well a roster full of guys who need shots).  Maybe Nellie would be interested in a team-oriented, super-quick point for his run-and-gun offense?

As long as Raymond doesn’t sign for anything above 20% of last year’s salary, he sheds the Base Year status and could be either dealt straight-up for a player like Wright (if the Warriors have a trade exception — I couldn’t find a definitive answer) or packaged with Mohammed or Radmanovic for Speedy Claxton’s dead weight contract.

What do you guys think?  How would you improve team scoring?  Is there a trade or two out there that could bring in a better scorer than Iverson while enabling the Bobcats to retain Felton?

-ASChin

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66 Responses to “Post-Chandler Trade: Is Iverson the Answer?”

  1. Jaxon
    July 30, 2009 at 10:45 am #

    I expected to see Wallace in a lineup like this last year when they were talking about trading him… Just not in a Bobcats uni. Where did the Bobcats go?

    Larry Brown pretty much came here last year and said to the organization, you have done everything completely wrong.

  2. Jaxon
    July 30, 2009 at 10:46 am #

    Kudos to the team for letting Brown do his thing.

  3. Jared
    July 30, 2009 at 11:39 am #

    I like the idea of signing Iverson. I don't love the idea of making him our starting PG though. Though his by position numbers show that he was more effective as a PG in Denver (for context, he also had a PER of 35 when playing SF one season in Philly), his primary asset is scoring. Like many, I see him as a 2.

    He needs starters minutes. Starting AI alongside Felton not only gives Charlotte an unprecedented scorer, but 3 solid playmakers (Felts, AI, and Diaw), and intensity on defense. His 2.2 steals per game average is matched by John Stockton. Now I'm not saying AI is a superior defender to Bell, I'm saying he's going to bring full effort on both sides of the ball.

    That's my preference though. Dropping Felton instead of Bell is an interesting scenario as well. Wright is a relatively unproven commodity. His per 36 stats look good (16 pts, 9 rebounds, 2 blocks), but he hasn't played even 40 games in a season yet. I don't really see that particular deal happening though it may be worth the risk. I mean, if we're blowing up team, might as well have fun and do it right!

  4. Gregster
    July 30, 2009 at 1:02 pm #

    Your logic on Iverson makes a lot of sense and reuniting with Larry Brown seems likes a perfect fit. Here's the only problem: A.I. is worthless and anything above veteran minimum is too much. Who is he going to guard? Forget about him guarding quick 1's and he's too small to guard 2's. On the offensive end, yes he'll score, but he'll be inefficent and shoot a low percentage. Let D.J. and Gerald get their minutes and at least lose with youth. I do, however, like the idea of dealing for Brendan Wright.

  5. spectre
    July 30, 2009 at 6:49 pm #

    Felton is BYC if he gets a new starting salary of 5 million bucks or more…so he'll most assuredly be BYC. He also has to approve of the trade (think he'd do that for less than 5 per year?).

    The Bobcats also CAN'T withdraw the offer; the deadline for that was July 23rd.

    If you want Iverson and stay under the luxury tax hope he'll take around 2 million per year…that's about the only way it'll happen.

  6. Bobcat orange?
    July 30, 2009 at 11:20 pm #

    I would love to get Iverson, but this still doesn't look like a realistic proposition. Why would Iverson come to Charlotte other than to play for a coach that he didn't really like, or agree with, all that much?

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/news/

    Does that sound like a great relationship to you? Something he would want to repeat for the end of his career?

    Iverson to the Bobcats has always been a pipe dream. He doesn't have any reason to play here. Besides, I'm not convinced that Iverson taking 30 shots a night is the 'answer' to anything at this point in his career.

    Iverson is going to the Clips or the Heat, somewhere he can play with some talent that can win a title, or at least make the playoffs.

    As to solving our scoring woes this season? We should sign Iverson, but we'll re-up Felton instead. I predict another season of over penetration, off balanced jumpers to finish games.

  7. Adam
    July 31, 2009 at 1:46 am #

    spectre-

    As you and I have discussed before…do you really think that Raymond is getting more than $5 million/year? Right now they are ABSOLUTELY bidding against themselves and I can't contemplate them signing him to a multi-year contract of anything over $6 per. Prefer to have him back at the qualifying offer and make him earn a big contract next season.

    Hell, even if he does sign for over 20% of last year's salary (full mid-level) the BYC won't effect a trade like the one that I have listed above because the 'Cats would be taking back slightly less in salaries to begin with.

    Good call on the July 23rd deadline (I thought it ran until today, the 31st).

    We should all be following the Ramon Sessions situation. Not only do they both love Myrtle Beach but I'd bet that Raymond ends up signing for around the same money.

    Gregster-

    If you think Iverson would be a disaster, I think "Brendan Wright" would be an even bigger one. Doesn't he pull third shift over at the Steak and Shake?

    All-

    I'm still looking for answers. If Iverson doesn't get the call, who is going to score points for this team next year? (And if reggie says that "Ajinca will beast next year" one more time, I'm officially going to lose it.)

  8. michael raciappa
    July 31, 2009 at 2:20 am #

    If the Bobcats want scoring "the answer" is Dino Radja, not AI.Or someone who fits the scene around here, a Rafeal Addison or a Dana Barros would work perfect. AI is too primetime for Charlotte. If Iverson did sign with the Bobcats maybe Charlotte gets an NBA on NBC Sunday game at 3:00. Bigtime! I can here Marv Albert now shouting about womens panties and a vicous two handed slam by Kevin Duckworth.

  9. reggie
    July 31, 2009 at 2:53 am #

    Adam,

    i say IF.

    All,

    could we get a first rounder out of felton?

  10. Adam
    July 31, 2009 at 4:04 am #

    As Joey would say, "Whoah!"

    Felton better than Ariza and Charlie V?

    I thought I was the one who overvalued local players. If Felton wants $7 mil/per, then he needs to go. No way a PG who shoots a career average of 39% from the field (that's not a typo) and has never dished more than 7.4 apg earns that kind of dough. Especially with DJ waiting in the wings. Let somebody else overpay him. We've got plenty of dumb contracts already (Vlad, Diop, Mohammed). And decent backup PGs (ex. Anthony Carter) can be had for less than the bi-annual and you know that DJ wouldn't need to play 48 mpg.

    Trivia: What has a better chance of happening next year:

    a.) Felton shooting over 45% from the field (has never happened, btw).

    b.) Ajinca "beasting."

  11. spectre
    July 31, 2009 at 4:20 am #

    Yah…CV was so great that the Bucks didn't even extend the QO of 4.6 million. You know why? Because he gave up more than he provided. Just because you can put it in the basket does not mean you aren't still a liability.

    You do realize players' value isn't based solely on offense right? Behind Felton we had the 2nd best opponent's PER in the LEAGUE. Now let me see…isn't our coach a Defense First type of guy? Didn't he say he wants Felton back?

    Duhon got the full MLE for 3 years for Christ's sake…yet you only want to play Felton 5 per year!

    But your getting off track…tell me again: Why would Felton approve of a trade that nets him less than the qualifying offer?

  12. spectre
    July 31, 2009 at 4:32 am #

    Oops…LESS than 5 per year!

    BTW, it's disingenous to be quoting his career % (which is 39.9%). Why not use last year's unless you just want to show a lower number? He was at 41% last season and coincidentally…the guy who's the subject of this thread shot 42% last season. One of those guys actually plays defense…yet we're looking for ways to dump the one that does to bring in the other that doesn't?

    For the full MLE no less…what you don't want to pay Felton!

  13. Adam
    July 31, 2009 at 4:35 am #

    Ross-

    Dino Radja would be a solid backup 4, for certain. I could see him putting down 10 and 8 off of the bench. I'm still holding out for Blair Rasmussen though.

    All-

    I'm still looking for ideas! (Yes, I'm desperate as a fan.) Is there anybody out there who the Bobcats could realistically sign or deal for that could put points on the board next season???!!!

  14. spectre
    July 31, 2009 at 4:36 am #

    Whoever said that he’d have to get paid less than the qualifying? My hope was that he could be signed for less than 20% over what he made last year in a sign-and-trade.

    Adam…his last year's salary was something around 4.1 million…120% of that is a little over 4.9 million.

    Read this carefully now…

    To not get into BYC he'd have to get paid 4.9 million or LESS…which is smaller than the 5.5 million qualifying offer.

    Your first post to me in this thread:

    "As you and I have discussed before…do you really think that Raymond is getting more than $5 million/year?"

    Since 5 million is less than 5.5 million it looks like YOU said it.

  15. Adam
    July 31, 2009 at 4:38 am #

    M15-

    We need to start a new poll.

    WHO IS A BETTER VALUE OVER THE NEXT TWO NBA SEASONS:

    a.) Allen Iverson at $6 million per.

    b.) Raymond Felton at $7+ million per.

  16. spectre
    July 31, 2009 at 4:42 am #

    "My question to you is, as a virtual GM, would you sign Raymond Felton to a multi-year deal that paid him more than $7 million per year? And if the answer is yes, then you are both crazy and qualified to be a GM for at least 15 NBA teams."

    Nice…so if I disagree with you I'm crazy.

    If you look at the average salary and comparable PGs out there and what contracts they're under now I think Felton easily has an argument for 7 per. Due to this economy and teams not wanting to take on long contracts however this does give the Bobcats some leverage.

    As GM I would certainly hold out for the best contract I can get (after all…that would be my job), but I would not want him playing on the QO as odds are it would mean we get no compensation for him next year. We do not have the assets to let one go without compensation, so most likely in the end I'd do exactly what the team did with Emeka last year; grudgingly pay him and then look to trade him as soon as the BYC goes off.

  17. spectre
    July 31, 2009 at 4:44 am #

    Adam LOL…so it's went from not wanting to pay him 5 million per year to 7!

    All I said was that Felton was worth more than CV…did I also say that CV was worth 7 million?

  18. The Mixtape Monster
    July 31, 2009 at 4:55 am #

    Seems like every post I read here is advocating trading Felton. What's y'alls beef? Am I the only one that thinks he's coming into his own and needs to be kept?

    Look at Chauncey Billup's stats his first couple years…very comparable to Felton's, and both were on shady teams.

  19. Adam
    July 31, 2009 at 4:56 am #

    Dude, have a sense of humor. You didn't get that joke about being a qualified NBA GM, did you?

    Anyway, I think we're getting our signals crossed. The debate comes down to this:

    Is Felton worth a contract over the MLE?

    My position is is that he's not. And no, if you re-read what I said, I think $5 million is a great value. I still would rather him play somewhere else and get a quality big in return but that's just me. DJ is making rookie money and is ready to start. That's great value on a team with at least 3 other bloated contracts weighing them down. To add Felton and his $7+ million per deal would just further bog them down financially. And "losing" Raymond to UFA isn't the worst thing ever. The Bulls just "lost" Ben Gordon and aren't exactly crying about it heading into the season.

  20. The Mixtape Monster
    July 31, 2009 at 4:58 am #

    PS – I think if the choices are Iverson at 6 per or Felton at 7+, I would still take Felton at 7+

    (not saying 7+ is an option, but if those are the two choices, the CLEAR answer is Felton. It isn't all about putting points on the board. You can score 115, but if the other team drops 125 on you, you still lose. Felton has more quality years and room for improvement. Iverson is a used car that you just drove off the lot)

  21. spectre
    July 31, 2009 at 5:01 am #

    Last season:

    Raymond Felton's opponent's PER = 13.0

    Allen Iverson's opponent's PER = 18.8 (PG)

    Allen Iverson's opponent's PER = 21.7 (SG)

    Felton's net difference in PER = +2.9

    Iverson's net difference in PER = -1.1 (PG)

    Iverson's net difference in PER = -4.6 (SG)

    Maybe you should do a poll.

  22. Adam
    July 31, 2009 at 5:07 am #

    So…you are going to judge a career 27 ppg scorer by his worst season ever? A season in which he was injured, traded and misused?

    How many MVPs has Raymond won?

    How many All-Star appearances has Raymond had?

    How many All-NBA teams has Raymond made?

    How many Playoff games has Raymond played in?

    How many Finals games has Raymond played in?

    How many scoring championships has Raymond won?

    Run those stats. (HINT, Raymond's answer to all them is "ZERO")

    Please…

    A.I. has at least two good seasons left in him. Watch out.

  23. spectre
    July 31, 2009 at 5:10 am #

    I missed you saying that the trade above would work because we'd be taking in less salary…it wouldn't. GSW would be taking in too much salary. They only have 2 TEs (which can't be combined) and both are less than 1 million bucks.

    I think a full MLE deal is perfectly fine (which seemingly from your last post it is for you too as you just said "Is Felton worth a contract over the MLE?"). You do realize what a full MLE deal is on average don't you? Something like 6.7 per.

    BTW, comparing Gana & Vlad to Felton in saying that they would all be "bad" deals is just false. Felton is a starter, logs just under 40 mpg. Neither of the other guys come close.

  24. Adam
    July 31, 2009 at 5:28 am #

    Stop skewing the facts. Iverson averaged over 26 ppg only a year ago with Denver. Not "8 years ago" with Philly.

    Boris would run the offense with A.I. playing next to Raja in the backcourt. This is a non-issue. Eric Snow was also 6'3" and not 6'0" like Raymond.

    Another great question: "How many future All-Star games will Raymond Felton play in?" [crickets]

    Everybody is counting A.I. out and that is exactly what is so dangerous. On the right team like the Bobcats, Iverson could come in drop 24ppg easy.

    I still haven't heard any solutions from you either. If not Iverson, then how are the Bobcats going to score more than 95 ppg next year? Ideas?

  25. spectre
    July 31, 2009 at 6:45 am #

    “How many future All-Star games will Raymond Felton play in?” [crickets]

    How many future All-star games will Allen Iverson play in?

    Look, I like AI and I wouldn't mind him on the team IF Larry Brown wanted him. Apparently he doesn't…so that's good enough for me.

    This is all moot anyway as the opening post isn't really feasible…there was no need to go off on a tangent of Felton's "worth".

    *We can't renounce the QO.

    *Felton isn't stupid enough to agree to a contract smaller than the QO.

    *Any contract over 4.9 makes him BYC.

    *Only 2 or 3 teams with capspace and all are not wanting to add salary (Sacramento, OKC are two).

    *He gets to approve or kill the trade.

    Therefore…we won't spend the full MLE on AI because we won't go over the luxury tax limit. You "wishing" it doesn't make it happen outside the NBA rules nor within the team's own.

    Besides, Whitfield told some season ticket holders that "AI's needs don't match our own".

  26. spectre
    July 31, 2009 at 6:59 am #

    What would I do? That's hard to say with Felton unresolved and the mandate to not exceed the tax. Supposedly the FO has said they'd match a reasonable offer that could go up to at least Full MLE type money. Even if it ends up being the QO that'd only leave us like 2-2.5 million…Warrick for example got 2.4 million. What else is there?

    Looks like Juwan Howard at the vet min. Doesn't look like there's really much else we can do.

    We could trade Boris for Jason Richardson! (joke)

    Kidding aside, I doubt LB is worried about the points as much as you are. He said himself "our defense initiates our offense". Defense first.

  27. spectre
    July 31, 2009 at 8:54 am #

    "As you and I have discussed before…do you really think that Raymond is getting more than $5 million/year?"

    Adam…he's got a guaranteed 5.5 million due to the qualifier. Why would he approve of a trade (and he HAS to approve the trade!) that will pay him less?

    At least 17 teams have positioned themselves for a max FA next year. If you were Felton…would you settle for a low contract this year when there's no FA money vs. next year when over half the teams will have it?

    Ariza got the full MLE. Charlie Villaneuva got 7 million per year. Felton's skill set is better than both those guys. Just because he's got no offer sheets (as most RFAs don't…look at Ben Gordon/Mek last year) does not mean he won't get a good FA deal next year (look at Ben Gordon).

    I know you guys are desperate to move Felton so "the future" can start (and play 48 mpg I guess)…but when we made that QO it's pretty much guaranteed he's going to be in Charlotte this upcoming season. It's not 100% but it's darn close to it.

  28. Adam
    July 31, 2009 at 9:32 am #

    Whoever said that he'd have to get paid less than the qualifying? My hope was that he could be signed for less than 20% over what he made last year in a sign-and-trade. If it's more than that, he could still be traded but the receiving team would be obligated to take on more than they return. Could still be accomplished.

    My question to you is, as a virtual GM, would you sign Raymond Felton to a multi-year deal that paid him more than $7 million per year? And if the answer is yes, then you are both crazy and qualified to be a GM for at least 15 NBA teams.

  29. spectre
    July 31, 2009 at 10:14 am #

    So you think last year was just a "blip" and had nothing to do with AI's age?

    You think he can go back to being the AI of Philly? Do you think we should be comparing Felton of today with the AI of 8 years ago? LOL do you really think that we'd be getting that AI from 8 years ago moreso thanthe one from last year?

    Apples and Oranges?

    BTW…who did Larry Brown pair AI with at Philly? Wasn't it a defensive minded PG in Snow?

  30. Jared
    July 31, 2009 at 11:07 am #

    AI might not be the most realistic option, but I'm not going to fault a guy for wishful thinking. I have the same hopeful thoughts.

    An interesting take on D. Brown over a hoopsworld:

    http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=1348

  31. spectre
    July 31, 2009 at 11:40 am #

    Neither do I…but instead it once again got turned into "all about Felton" and how much he sucks.

    I think Moreau is pretty "out there" in thinking Brown will supplant Boris in the starting lineup…but I guess stranger things have happened.

  32. Adam
    July 31, 2009 at 12:18 pm #

    Uh, Iverson made the All-Star team last season and is so popular that he'll probably be voted in until he stops playing.

    I love that quote from Coach Brown.

    "Final Score: 90 – 97. Where Charlotte NBA Basketball Happens."

    This team is going to make Van Gundy's Knicks look like D'Antoni's Suns.

  33. bobcats orange?
    July 31, 2009 at 12:51 pm #

    Dig the dialogue guys, hard to find ANYBODY that will talk about the Bobs. Ever thought about adding a forum to your site?

    If the question came down to Felton OR Iverson, I would take Iverson ten times out of ten. That's still really not the question though, why would Iverson play the remaining…what two, three years of his hall of fame career on a team that's not a contender.

    Even Iverson can't be as arrogant at this point in his life to consider himself good enough to take a team to the playoffs by himself.

    At this point it's bring back Felton, or blow bits and pieces of the MLE on scrubs not worth commanding the whole thing.

    We were almost a playoff team last year. Even with all his flaws, I feel like keeping Felton would keep us closer to the playoffs than losing him.

    Sign Felton, and overpay him, sure. Let him play a year, and then deal him like we did Mek. Maybe get back some better pieces before giving the team to D.J.

  34. spectre
    July 31, 2009 at 1:00 pm #

    Heh, then we should sign him! Think maybe Stern will just let us ignore the luxury tax this year?

    "This team is going to make Van Gundy’s Knicks look like D’Antoni’s Suns."

    Eh…this team was playing .500 ball and was pushing for a playoff spot after a dismal start to the season until Raja went down (and that's with the setback of Crash's collapsed lung). If we'd gotten Henderson last year and he'd had most of the season under his belt we'd probably have gotten in. During that stretch we got up to 3rd in the League in defense.

    All with that weak offense!

  35. Adam
    July 31, 2009 at 1:34 pm #

    Just to be clear, you are talking about Gerald Henderson, right? The guy who lit up the Summer League in Vegas? I haven't given up on him but lets see Gerald play a single NBA game before hitching the team's playoffs hopes to him.

    And how can somebody be so down on a 1st ballot HOFer like Iverson and so high on a dude that just stunk up the Summer League?

    bobcatsorange-

    That's probably what'll end up happening. I can't fathom Felton being here for any longer than 3 seasons (when DJ is up for a raise). We've been talking about a forum but are concentrating on a few other things like T-Shirts, promotions, etc to gear up for the upcoming season. Thanks for the kind words!

  36. spectre
    July 31, 2009 at 3:40 pm #

    Ah…so you don't like Henderson?

    What do you like about the Bobcats other than our "future"?

    We needed depth Adam…that's what killed us last season. Without depth you had Felton as the starting PG AND the backup SG. Not only did Raja have to guard the opposing team's toughest player he had to pull a lot of minutes…not so easy for a guy his age.

    Not only that, but DJ was out for a stretch…so we only had 2 legit players at the 1 & 2.

    But you know what? That starting group had the SIXTH highest +/- in the NBA with the 2nd highest minutes! Great stuff eh? Not bad for a team that can't score!

    Just think how much it'd help if Henderson could fill in just 15 minutes a game and give the starters some rest. Wouldn't that help just a little bit Adam? Wouldn't that make a difference?

    I'd think you would at least understand that instead of quickly jumping to the conclusion that I'm just so high on the guy.

    All this going off tangent has made me forget…how we sign AI for the full MLE again?

  37. Adam
    July 31, 2009 at 5:56 pm #

    Just back from an awesome Thai restaurant…spicy!

    It seems that I've touched a nerve!

    "how we sign AI for the full MLE" is the question folks, so lets find a solution!

    1.) Dump Henderson or Ajinca in a trade. Dumping Henderson would be unpopular and Ajinca's $1.37 million might not be enough to put the team under the luxury tax after you add in both Raymond's qualifying offer and AI's full MLE. (it's close but I don't remember the exact terms of Derrick Brown's deal to see just how close it would be).

    2.) Sign Iverson, have Raymond play for the qualifying and hope that you can deal Raymond before the deadline. As I understand it, you don't have to pay the tax until the end of the season, so if Raymond is gone by the trade deadline, he won't count against the tax. *I'm not 100% certain on this but if I'm wrong, I am 100% certain a certain someone will call me out on it.

    Any other strategies out there? What would you guys do to sign both AI and Felton (IF YOUR LIFE DEPENDED ON IT!!!).

    Thanks to everyone for the comments, btw, and hope you all have an incredible weekend.

  38. leroy
    July 31, 2009 at 6:47 pm #

    im just assuming the things here…

    the thing is, with the pride that iverson lives up with thruout his nba career, he actually doesnt care about a ring no more, rather, he would like a chance to prove himself still a elite scorer that can lead the NBA.

    here is what i did in 2k9…

    okafor+felton+someone for d.rose, tyrus thomas and drew gooden…

    hahahah that would be tight if it happens in real life.

  39. spectre
    July 31, 2009 at 7:47 pm #

    "It seems that I’ve touched a nerve!"

    Why would you think that? Just because I asked you to give an actual legitimate way to do what the whole premise of the thread is based on? Kind of faulty reasoning there, but you do seem to jump to conclusions pretty quickly.

    I'm actually having fun! That is why most post on these sites right?

    Anyway…Lex + Henderson for basically nothing. Maybe we could get OKC to do that. I'd be a little leary of playing out the season maxed out cap wise with 2 over 30 guys at the 2. Also giving up a 12th and a 20th pick wouldn't be very business smart…but this could possibly work!

    Signing him and then hoping we can dump Felton for nothing at the end of the season (you are correct on when the tax is calculated) is a move I don't see Johnson going with nor is it very feasible; why would teams bail us out like that when they'd only be hurting their bottom line (they get more from the tax dispersal by keeping us over). Also Felton would STILL have to approve the trade.

    So…first is probably possible, second not so much.

    If my life depended on it I'd probably have to look at a 3 way where we send Crash out, get a lesser version (like Outlaw for instance) and capspace.

    Off the top of my head (and not looking at any salaries):

    Crash to Portland

    Outlaw to Charlotte

    Rudy to OKC.

    Course I'd only do that if my life depended on it…in my view Crash is better than AI+Outlaw.

  40. Jared
    August 1, 2009 at 12:18 am #

    Andy,

    How come you were so upset over trading Okafor, a move that is in some ways a salray dump, but are so easily throwing out the idea of us dumping Henderson, Ajinca, or Felton for no talent in return. In the Chandler move, we get roughly equal talent in return (the big concern is the injury issue for Chandler, not talent).

    Now you're talking about dumping players with presumably nothing but cap room in return? All that just to take a chance on Iverson? Remember I like the idea of Iverson, but dumping two younger, cheaper players who can add more depth to the roster, even if they are unproven in the NBA sounds like a short-sighted move in the range of picking up Nazr and Vlad.

    I don't understand how trading Felton mid season would help us cap-wise if he's playing on a 1 year QO. At best, wouldn't we be trading for a contract of roughly equal value that expires at the same time that his would. Even if we could get decent cap room by trading Felton, giving up that kind of talent for nothing but cap room in return is a trade on the same level of the Chandler/Okafor deal, if not much worse.

    I understand that there is a Felton/Okafor dichotomy out there among Bobcat fans, though I think that's mostly an emotion fueled dichotomy created by turning one or the other into a scape goat for what has really been a poor front office in Charlotte. I like both Okafor and Felton. If we look at them honestly, they've both been solid starters and they both have their weaknesses.

    Sorry for the little tangent, but I think we should look at Felton and Okafor on equal terms. Both are good players, but neither should be held as sacred on our roster.

  41. Adam
    August 1, 2009 at 12:44 am #

    Jared-

    This is about scoring, not about giving away something for nothing. [It's basically an Iverson for Felton swap, btw]

    Get creative! Send me your ideas! How does this team score more than 95 ppg next year and stay under the luxury tax???

  42. Jared
    August 1, 2009 at 2:07 am #

    I'll bring up the point again, how does trading Felton if he's on a 1 year QO give us cap relief anyhow? Unless we trade him and then buy out or waive the player that we traded him for. What's the point of that?

  43. Adam
    August 1, 2009 at 2:19 am #

    Jared-

    There are dozen or so teams out there (like the Bobcats) who have trade exceptions. This means that they could take on more salary in a trade than they return.

    All the Bobcats would have to do in my second scenario is find a team with a ~$2 million trade exception and swap Felton for a player making around $2 million less. The thinking goes that a team thick in the playoff hunt come FEB would roll the dice and take on more salary if a player like Felton could put them over the top.

    I STILL haven't heard any ideas from you!!!!

    Get creative! Send me your ideas! How does this team score more than 95 ppg next year and stay under the luxury tax???

  44. Jared
    August 1, 2009 at 7:05 am #

    But you are giving away long term solid play for a couple, maybe 3 productive years at most for Iverson. Hence the similarities to the Chandler/Okafor deal.

    I just don't see how one deal is better than the other.

  45. mike15
    August 1, 2009 at 7:58 am #

    Have y'all seen this on NBA.com ?

    Chris Webber's "Fab 5" : Best 5 Hornets of All Time

    Watchin' this stings a lot (get it).

  46. Jared
    August 1, 2009 at 8:29 am #

    Well like I said weeks ago, if you're bringing in Iverson, Raja is the player to replace. AI is a drop off on defense, but he gives you that much more in scoring. Raja makes 5.25 mil. Raymond and hopefully Henderson can play strong defense. see QCH's assessment of Iverson:

    Iverson has some interesting numbers – his opponents' per minutes stats are all down, but their PER against him was significantly better than (over 1 point difference) expected. That improvement was due almost entirely to their improved shooting percentages when facing The Answer. 4.2% better from the field with a 2.8% increase in true shooting percentage. On top of that, it seemed teams were going after Iverson, as opponents averaged a half point more per 100 team possessions than expected, with most of that increase coming in his brief time at SG. Does Iverson need to have a bigger guard on the court beside him, to handle some of the defensive burden? Maybe, but considering the job Raymond did at the 2 this year, that may be possible for the Bobcats to handle (see Ray's Season Review for a refresher).

    For reason's I've already stated, I prefer Felton/Iverson in the back court over Iverson/Bell. I'll add to that, Iverson and Bell are both in the twilight of their careers. Making them our starters means we can look to replacing our entire back court in 2/3 years time. That may work if Henderson develops into a capable starter (or we use our new found cap room) and D.J. stays on course. I just prefer the versatility of playing Iverson and Felton together now.

    No matter how you bring AI in, it's a big risk.

  47. Jared
    August 1, 2009 at 8:30 am #

    I thought it would be more clear, but I stopped quoting QCH at "see Ray's Season Review for a refresher."

  48. spectre
    August 1, 2009 at 8:34 am #

    In regards to scoring…

    First off, are your numbers for the entire season or since the Phoenix trade? That makes a huge difference as we are not the same team now as we were last November.

    Using Felton's opponent's PER as an example, when you read Brett's piece over at QCH he says Felton was just average until that trade…then suddenly he got very good. Since that 13.0 is for the year can you imagine what it would have been for the 2nd half of the season with the roster we have now?

    It's not just him; we became a defensive force, jumping from the middle of the pack to 3rd. Same thing; if you just look at post all star break our defense had to have been pretty darn stellar.

    I'd like to see all that stuff run for the 2nd half. If what I'm thinking is correct then I think our scoring will be more than what we give up.

    Even if we only score 90 we still win if the opponent's only score 85.

  49. Adam
    August 1, 2009 at 9:08 am #

    I like it Jared. Thanks!

    Felton/Iverson is a small backcourt but is much younger than an Iverson/Bell duo. I also think that Raja would be EVEN EASIER to deal at the deadline than Ray. Good call!

    This just reminded me of something. I've been reading a lot about how Felton's "Defensive PER" was so strong last year. Maybe you stat-minded fans can clue me in on something:

    Is there some sort of "Reverse D'Antoni" calculation somewhere in there that accounts for the fact that Felton (and the rest of the Bobcats) played on one of the League's slowest paced and lowest scoring teams?

    I mean, if Duhon, Robinson and Lee can put up near All-Star offensive numbers on the Knicks, shouldn't the same hold true for defensive numbers on this squad?

  50. Adam
    August 1, 2009 at 9:16 am #

    By the way, if D'Antoni's Suns are referred to as the "Seven Seconds or Less" team, shouldn't we have some sort of catchy nickname as well?

    I'm voting for "Twenty-Three Seconds or More." Or maybe, "I Can't Believe It's Not the End of the Third Quarter." Or "Is This a Basketball Score or Did the Panthers Go Into Overtime?"

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